Sunday, February 7, 2010

CLOVER BY THE PARK versus BISHAN LOFT...?


YM has asked us for our opinion on CLOVER BY THE PARK versus BISHAN LOFT. Given the space limitation on our message box, we have chose to reply to his question on the main post.

The wife and I must first caution that while we are somewhat familiar with CLOVER (having been to the showflat a couple of times), we have never step into BISHAN LOFT ever so whatever comments we make on the later is based solely on our research from the Web.

So here is our stab on the question:

1. Apartment Status
CLOVER is a private condominium, while BISHAN LOFT has an Executive Condominium (EC) status. EC is basically an advanced version of the old HUDC apartments - EC are now built by private developers and are fully privatized, but buyers (especially for newly built EC) have to adhere strictly to certain Government (HDB) laid guidelines and eligibility conditions. Two such eligibility conditions regarding resale of EC are

• First-hand owners of EC can only resell their apartments in the secondary market after five years. After the initial 5 years, they can only sell their apartments to Singaporean and PRs.
• Foreigner can only purchase EC from the secondary market after 10 years, when all restrictions are lifted.

With private condominiums, no such buying/selling restrictions exist. So buyers of resale EC may be faced with a smaller pool of suitors should they decide to resell their units before the 10-year "time bar".

In terms of facilities provided within the condo, there is usually little difference between private and EC, as both are typically full facilities projects.

2. Apartment Availability Status
Resale units in BISHAN LOFT (TOP in 2004) are currently available in the secondary market. However, you have to wait till at least December 2012 before you can move into CLOVER. So for those buyers who needs an apartment like…NOW, CLOVER is not really an option unless you are prepared to go on rental somewhere else (or bunk in with your folks) while waiting for the condo to TOP.

3. Apartment Sizes
This is where our comments may be questionable: We understand that the typical 2 and 3-bedder unit in BISHAN LOFT is 1100-1400sqft, while the 4-bedder is 1400-1500sqft. There may be bigger 3 and 4–bedroom units in this condo, but we have failed to find any during our search, excluding the penthouses, of course.

Assuming the above is true, and if you are looking for bigger apartment units, then CLOVER is probably the better choice. Their typical 2 & 3-bedders are 1300-1600sqft, while the normal 4-bedders are almost 1750sqft.

4. Project Location
This is one where BISHAN LOFT certainly has the advantage. It is located within a stone throw (ok, make that about 600m) away from Junction 8 Shopping mall and Bishan MRT Station. You will probably have to take a bus (or drive) to get to these locations from CLOVER, as walking will take you a good 20 – 25 minutes at least.

5. Price
This will probably be the top consideration for most potential buyers.

A check on the URA website reveals that from Sep 2009 to Jan 2010, a total of 14 transactions were concluded at BISHAN LOFT at a price range of $675 – $795psf. There was a lone transaction in Jan 2010 for an 1130sqft unit at $801psf.

At CLOVER, the price range for transactions concluded from Sep to Dec 2009 is $670 - $880psf. No transaction is recorded for Jan 2010 yet, but 9 transactions were done in Dec 2009 alone at prices ranging between $713 - $848psf.

In summary, whether you choose BISHAN LOFT or CLOVER will largely depend on factors like:

• When do you need the apartment – i.e. in the next couple of month, or next few years?
• New versus Old – are you happy with a resale unit, or are you prepared to wait a few years for a new project to compete?
• Location – especially if you do not own a car
• Unit size – do you need a bigger 4-bedder, or will a 1500sqft apartment suffice?
• Price – how much in terms of price quantum are you prepared to pay?

On a personal note, we expect an upward price adjustment for CLOVER in the coming months, as we understand that almost all the “good facing” units have been sold. And when you consider the prices that neighboring projects like Trevis and Centro Residences are now asking, there is certainly some price upside potential for CLOVER. Having said that, everything is based on the assumption that the economic conditions do not head south - this is anybody’s guess at the moment.

Anyone else has more to add on this subject, or a differing opinion maybe? It will be great to start a discussion thread in the “comments” section of this post.

Oh and by the way, SG PropTalk is exactly 2 months old today!

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17 comments:

Anonymous said...

hi,
Thank you very much for your valuable opinion!

Hubby and I both think Clover is a better buy as it is newer and hence easier to sell in future and there would be lesser maintenance problems like plumbing/leakage issues.
However I am not a big fan of planter boxes as I think it's a breeding ground for mosquitoes and rubbish if neighbours do not maintain them well.

Bishan Loft does have a location advantage as it is walkable to MRT vs Clover.

Well, let's hope there will be some correction in the market and we can pick up either one of it :)

rgds
YM

Folks @PropTalk said...

Hi YM,

You're most welcome, and we do appreciate the fact that you cannot normally choose the neighbours that you have to live alongside with.

Good luck on your search anyway, and please tell your friends about our blog!

Rgds
Folks @PropTalk

Anonymous said...

Hi
You may want to know that the TOP is next year, 2011!

If you are looking at Clover, forget block 2, it may be a tad close to the traffic. For Block 6 facing south/city, its nice to take 15th to high floors for high, breezy city view -woohoo!!
For Block 6 facing north/pool, it would be nice to take 7th to 12th floors, just above ground noise, yet enjoy near 150m of pool and private greenery view -so relaxing..

Clover has a comfortable balcony to enjoy both north or south orientations -woohoo!!

As for location, it has regular shuttle service
to the MRT and the condo is located just at the fringe of Bishan park -woohoo!!

woohoo upgrader

The Folks @PropTalk said...

Helloooooo Woohoo Upgrader,

So Clover is going to TOP next year eh? Well, it is certainly sooner than we were told previously. But given that the two blocks are already built to their top (or at least nearing the top), you are probably right on that one.

We agree that Block 6 (i.e. the inner block) is the better of the two blocks. But all bigger/better facing units in Block 6 were sold out long before now, so one will have to try their luck on the resale market for those "better facing/view" units you have mentioned.

Anyway, many thanks for the contribution and info.

Er...woohoo!! :)

Anonymous said...

I would suggest Block 6 facing park above level 7 to clear the tree top view, or Block 2 facing partial park and condo view at least above level 7 .

Not advisable for Block 2 below level 7 as is too close to road and also Block 6 below level 7 will have noise from kids pool, BBQ pit as well as the sparkling sunlight from the pool.

Anonymous said...

Just read from the forum that Stack 8 and 11 have the smallest floor area at 1216 sqft.

These 2 stack do not have the store room, maid toilet and bath tub in master bedrm.

lack of maid toilet near kitchen, you will have to do the washing of clothes in the common toilet which is near to the living room.

Also the lack of store room will lead to more messy house unless you are going to build a lot of cabinet for storage.

My advise is NOT to choose stack 8 and 11 if you are going to stay for long term.

Anonymous said...

Anyone know when is the exact date of TOP? Tks.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, what I mean is the date of TOP for Clover By The Park. Tks

Folks @PropTalk said...

Hi Anonymous (Jan 7th): Funny you should ask cos nobody seems to really know. We have friends who have bought units there and they themselves aren't sure. The best we could get is "sometimes in March".

Clover Seekers said...

This seems like a long shot but here goes: We are looking for a 4-bedroom unit (1700+ sqft) at Clover By The Park for own-stay. However, we are not interested in Stacks 1, 2 or 6 and any unit that is below 10-Storey.
And here's the challenge: we are looking at a price of not more than $1.4 million. But we are able to complete the purchase within 2 months (maybe 6 weeks even).
If anyone is in the market for a quick
sale, please contact us at CloverBTP@hotmail.sg
And NO, THIS is NOT a HOAX! Thank you.

Agent said...

Don't think you can get any 4 bedder at 1.4mil, currently the corner 3 bedder above 10th level already more than 1.4mil. Unless you are looking at middle stack 3 bedders (not facing park). Like those facing road or facing children pool probably can get 1.1mil, if higher level than may be 1.2.

viewer said...

Recently transaction at low floor stack 10 already $1.35mil, some more this unit facing noisy children pool, bbq pit etc as most of the experience condo buyer will understand what I mean. Probably this buyer didn't do his home work, paying such high psf for a low floor unit like this.

Anonymous said...

I just visited a super high floor for Blk 2 facing the city. The view is amazing! In my opinion, i would prefer a city view compared to a park view as most of the time i will wind down in the night and there is nothing to see in the night facing the park. Anyway, my search continues as the super high floor is asking for way above my budget.

The Folks @PropTalk said...

Hi Anonymous (31/10/2011, 12:00PM):

We cannot agree more (about the city view), since we used to own one such unit in Blk 2. :)

Good luck with your search!

chethran said...

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